Jeremy Allen White on 'The Bear,' Carmy and Sydney's Relationship in Season 2

SPOILER ALERT: This story contains spoilers for Season 2 of “The Bear,” now streaming on Hulu.

In Season 2 of “The Bear,” Jeremy Allen White’s Carmen Berzatto finally let his walls down and explored interests outside the kitchen. It didn’t work out well for him — but he did try. Carmy also had to balance his friendship and working relationship with partner Sydney (Ayo Edebiri), who kept her eye on the prize when he seemingly became distracted.

Throughout the second season, viewers also learned more about Carmy’s upbringing, specifically in the star-studded sixth episode, “Fishes.” That episode was a flashback to the family’s last Christmas together, with Jamie Lee Curtis appearing as his troubled mother, and Jon Bernthal returning as his brother, Michael, on the verge of a breakdown.

Here, White opens up to Variety about Season 2’s arcs, Carmy and his mother’s relationship and his hopes for the chef down the line, both personally and professionally.

How are you feeling this time around versus the release of the first season?

I think there was kind of a much slower sort of build in the first season. it felt like it kind of came in waves, and there was a word of mouth thing happening. And this time, it feels like we got shot out of a cannon or something. It all feels very, very immediate. Putting all the episodes out at the same time again, it’s kind of wild.

Do you have a preference on that? I know it’s not your call, but whether the show comes out as a binge or weekly?

Above my pay grade to make that choice, but I personally like to watch shows that I really love slowly. But, that’s an option even with all the episodes out at once. We give them options.

After Season 1, we talked about how you felt Carmy was a bit too broken and selfish to let anyone else in. He allowed himself to do that a little in Season 2, but do you believe he was really ready?

No, but I think this really interesting thing happened with Claire and how specific Claire is. She has an understanding of him kind of prior to his career. She really knows him and his family history, which I think must have been so welcomed, after you seeing Carmy kind of move through the first season with — other than Richie and his sister — dealing with a whole new group and trying to win these people over, win their liking and respect. I think it was very welcoming to see Claire for Carmy.

I also think Molly does such an amazing job. She’s so disarming and funny and charming. I think it didn’t allow Carmy to build up his his regular walls. She knocked them down with ease and allowed Carmy to feel cared for, which must have just been so welcomed because I don’t know the last time Carmy would have allowed himself to be cared for.

Do you think he has the potential to find true love, eventually? Whether it’s Claire or someone else?

I hope so. I hope he has the potential for it. I don’t know if we’ll see it with him. The way that Carmy is talking at the end of Season 2, if we get to do a Season 3, I have to assume he’ll be operating from this sort of loss, like, he extended himself, he fucked everything up by extending himself, and he can’t do it again. I think that’s where he’s at.

During the finale, we see Donna (Jamie Lee Curtis) saying she doesn’t deserve to see the restaurant’s success and then we see Carmy saying he doesn’t need amusement or enjoyment, like he doesn’t deserve it. Was that a parallel you guys discussed?

Oh yeah, that was that was definitely something that [creator] Chris Storer and I spoke about. That’s what it is that’s sets Carmy off — being called Donna. I think for Carmy and Richie, everybody knows Donna’s off limits. It’s not something we’re gonna speak on. That’s what Carmy knows. That’s what he came from.

How was it preparing for those scenes through the freezer door, speaking to no one?

It was interesting. Pretty much everything you saw on the fridge was shot in an afternoon. So it was like Carmy’s Fridge Day. Usually when you’re doing a scene with somebody, you’re looking at them, you’re listening to them, you’re trying to understand them and react to them. Carmy can kind of hear them, definitely can’t see them. I started referring to the fridge as a confessional. It’s like this honesty box. He’s not able to see who’s receiving him, and I think it allows him to be incredibly vulnerable and honest about certain things because he’s not afraid of the reaction he’s going to get.

We have talked about it this previously, the platonic relationship between Syd and Carmy and fans wanting more. Some viewers on social media felt there were moments of that this season, like him considering her to ask her to go out by the lockers or her maybe getting jealous — even though she just wanted her professional partner focused. Did you see that also when you started reading this season?

No! I read that as Syd being rightfully upset. They’re doing this thing together and she does not have Carm’s full attention and focus while they have a partnership. They’re trying to create this thing that’s very difficult to create. Of course there is love and and respect in this relationship. There’s admiration and I think and I hope that even in platonic relationships, you are able to say things like, “I need you.” When they speak to each other under the table in episode nine, it’s such a beautiful scene, and it is a scene about partnership, but not a romantic partner.

The other scene discussed heavily is him having the panic attack and thinking of Sydney calms him.

I think that it Syd and Carmy do things for one another. She is a source of peace and focus for him and I think, at times, he can be a source of inspiration and dependability. Sometimes he can’t.

Alright let’s talk about that star-studded sixth episode that featured such powerful scenes between you and Jamie Lee Curtis. How did you guys create that chemistry? Had you met before?

We didn’t know each other, but she was so immediately honest, vulnerable and curious. We had been texting a little bit and maybe we’d spoken on the phone a little bit before we met in person. I remember, I was sitting at base camp, talking to somebody, and I felt somebody behind me and it was Jamie. She just hugged me for maybe two minutes, not an exaggeration, really just hugged me for two minutes, and then held my face for another two minutes. No words spoken. And then sort of walked away. I think she just wanted to let me know that some crazy things are gonna happen in there, but she was letting me meet Jamie and know that at the end of the day, everything’s gonna be okay.

That’s incredible. That episode gave us quite an insight into Carmy’s family life and how hectic that could be, while also gathering us so much talent in one room. How was that experience for you as an actor and as the lead of the show?

What was so amazing about “Fishes” for me was we got the best actors in the world, and my job was to watch them. Carmy is really, pretty quiet throughout and you see why Carmy is so quiet and why he is so withdrawn. He’s dealing with these huge personalities and all of this emotional instability. It made my job very, very easy, because I could just take Jon Bernthal in and I could just take Jamie in.

Then there was this scene that Chris Storer thought of on the day — cousin Michelle, Sarah Paulson, comes into the dining area and invites me to come to New York to get a break. They didn’t write anything for that scene. He was like, “You guys get together and you invite him to come.” It was such a touching moment. It ended up being one of my favorite scenes while watching it because it’s one of the only times Carmy feels really seen. And Sarah was just so good. I just feel like if I can keep surrounding myself with good actors, then I’ll continue to do a good job!

So impressive! OK, you’ve talked a bit about chefs’ reactions to the show. Recently, Chicago chef Rick Bayless’ claimed that “The Bear” set the restaurant industry back 20 years, because now parents won’t let their kids be chefs because of their portrayal. What do you think of that?

Oh, I didn’t read that whole thing, but I was like, that’s ridiculous. Obviously, this is a TV show, so everything’s a little bit heightened. But what I take away from the show when I watch is, oh, my God, look at all the care and community and love and respect and inspiration that comes from this kitchen. Yes, when you’re talking about Carmy and his trauma and the pain that he brings to the kitchen, of course it’s chaotic. It is a difficult job, it’s time consuming and can be grueling. You’re dealing with a lot of big personalities and sometimes, vicious personalities. But when I watch our show, I see Marcus, I see Syd, I see Tina, I see Richie going through a 3-Michelin-Star place. I see them getting inspired and caring so deeply about what they’re doing.

Lastly, the season has been full of mantras, like “Every Second Counts.” Has there been a mantra that has resonated with you or helped you — either when you were coming up as an actor or now in your life?

Oh, that’s a good question. I think I’ve been getting better, but “just let go.” Especially when I was starting as an actor, I really tried to prepare so much. I really held on so tightly to all these decisions and all of these choices that I made. The older I’ve gotten, the more I’ve done this thing — I’m not saying you shouldn’t prepare; prepare all that you want to, and I think it’s incredibly helpful. But then I think when you get there, and if you’re around really great actors, like I’m lucky enough to be around and really great writing and crew, then you should really just be able to show up on set and kind of let it go.

This interview has been edited and condensed.

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